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I also think and I know he would agree, is fail when no one’s watching and then keep failing on even bigger stages like I love that sort of opposite end of that is Seth Godin, that often says, “Do things that may not work,” and if you’re going to do something in public that may not work like there’s got to be that tension. This was Courtney Poland of the story. Like, “Okay, time that that’s really important and if it’s okay later we’ll put some parameters around that and define it. Of course, you’re excited because you know. [00:22:50] Carl Richards: And so, all I’m saying is instead of trying to appear smart, spend all that time and energy training, practice listening, asking good questions and listening. If it wasn’t scary, it wouldn’t be sort of dancing with the mystery is the way I think of it like touching because you’re literally putting something that you care about out and you’re asking people to evaluate it. This question of why like start with why is so good,” and about that same time around Dan Sullivan of The Strategic Coach, actually the book called the Dan Sullivan Question, which is another great one. Money is just a tool that helps you do certain things in life and they never got to that far into the conversation where they figured that out. Carl and his work have also been featured on, and and he frequently keynotes at financial planning conferences around the world. I’m going to ask you both this question and it’s the only question that you can’t help each other on. When I go meet with my attorney, this happened us. This was years ago and we met. I grab some time with Carl Richards. Now that I know it came from John Bowen, I’m not interested. So, you sort of got to answer independently and then you have made a judgment decision already, which one’s the more verbally dominant. Do you remember or do you want me to read it? Like she wasn’t even listening back then. The best advisors I know do it all the time and they just have to remind themselves. That vulnerability is in the fact they’re going to look at you like you’re crazy and that’s the sign. You mentioned time earlier? So, you’re recalling that. Well, I can help you calculate that.” All right. And before you go, I’ve got a quick favor to ask. You can see me smiling now. Being a guy that’s written a few books, would you mind sharing what your favorite book, what it meant to you, or maybe there’s a most gifted book that you’ve had over the years beside your own? [00:53:04] Carl Richards: See, it turns out that we work in a complex adaptive system and complex means you do, A, it goes through this big thing and you don’t know what’s going to come out. Some of them no one cried like the greatest generation guys that were like, “I want to serve in my community and take care of my kids.” They didn’t cry, but it was just as important to them. I find that to be one of the biggest struggles that advisors face as they grow. That could mean a lot of things to a lot of people, Julie. So, tell me what happened. We put some framework. He’ll flip the projection section of the pitch book and he tears them out and throws them away like and so I think this idea we’ve sold, there’s a false sense of precision in our industry. “Oh, so you need to have a conversation with your partner about this. I love, you actually call the first appointment the same thing I tell advisors to call the first appointment which is kind of the discovery or the discovery session. Please keep finding the edge. [00:49:55] Brad Johnson: Yeah. Like I took a pottery class when I was eight and you should see like the pieces of paper that actually – and when I present live to groups 100 people to 3,000 people like they’re just a mess like what I’m doing live. I just hope there’s no revolt like I’m still waiting for like the sheep to knock on the door like, “Hey, man. I love the conversation. So, let’s dive into well, first of all, I just have to bring up this quote because I love it and it speaks to the power of a plan so it’s page 53 in your book. That’s what people do. [00:37:02] Carl Richards: I know advisors who will be like, “I won’t meet with you…” Well, actually, most advisors like don’t even think about this, but there are some advisors who thought about and said, “I won’t meet with you unless you’re both there,” and I admire that, and I think that can be a great practice. [26:59] How Carl discovered the importance of discovery meetings in financial services – and the power of asking the right opening question 3-5 minutes into his first conversation with a new client. She just wrote a book called Deep Creek which was the last book I can remember that was over an inch thick that I finished. Sorry. It really does help. Five stars. I had people say like, “Hey, man. You’ve done something to earn that position. In today’s conversation, I grab some time with Carl Richards. “Then it doesn’t matter which way you go,” said the cat. © 2020 Brad Johnson™ | WordPress Website Services, 061: Carl Richards on How to Simplify Your Appointment Process and Build Trust by Asking Better Questions, In today’s conversation, I grab some time with Carl Richards. It’s really important to understand that I stole all this. Adaptive means that our interaction with the system changes the system so like just whenever we move, reality moves too, right? Truer words have never been spoken, Carl. Coming from you, a guy that’s been in this industry and then a thought leader in the space for a long time, I appreciate that. They're among a handful of companies willing to hold clients' digital assets for safekeeping. Let it sit and see how it feels. There’s 1.5 million people in this whole island like there’s 7 million sheep. [00:29:07] Carl Richards: They’re scared to death. Number one is that I just want to go back and rewind these because these are really important things I run into all the time that I think advisors glance over sometimes. What if we just did reality-based financial plan? So, if you’re listening an advisor out there like go back and re-listen to that last five minutes because on my side, coaching advisors for over a decade, it’s like I don’t know what happens when you become an advisor. For those of you unfamiliar with Carl which I don’t think will be too many of you, he is a CFP and creator of the Sketch Guy column which has appeared weekly in the New York Times since 2010. It was mine and I thought I was pretty good at this in terms of making things simple and easy to understand and I was just getting blank stares and out of a certain act of desperation, this is not a blackboard but it was like there was a whiteboard on the wall and I jumped up and said, “No, like this,” just purely out of an act of desperation. It’s a guess.” What would it have to look like? A couple of things that are meaningful to you. And you start with the ones the least verbally dominant. Information shared routinely resonates with me on a professional and personal level. Yeah, it’s funny. Let me know if you listen to the show, how you found it, what guests I should have on, etcetera. [00:03:07] Carl Richards: Brad, thanks for having me. It hasn’t changed. I don’t think it’s from lack of want to. Somebody says freedom, flexibility and you just keep digging. I’m sure a lot of your listeners can relate to this, sitting at a desk when I was a financial advisor, a big brokerage firm, it will go unnamed, but has a bull as its symbol and is owned by a bank sitting at a desk trying to explain a relatively complex subject to a client and these were smart like all of our clients, smart, intelligent, successful people. Do you find people more present and more aware in New Zealand or is it the same bustle that you find in the US as well? Also, a quick apology to our listeners in Canada, the UK, Australia, all around the world internationally. Tell me a little bit more, Julie, about freedom.” And my goal in these first meetings was someone was going to cry, and it wasn’t going to be me. If you don’t have that in place and if it doesn’t resonate deeply with them, it’s really hard to get them saying no to poor behavior. [00:56:47] Brad Johnson: Yeah. Thanks again for joining and be sure to tune in next week for another episode. And you just say, “Brad, why is money important to you?” Now, you can say to Dan Sullivan, Brad, if we are meeting three years from now, what would have to happen over the next three years for you to feel like this is been a success? So, that would’ve been 12 + 7, 15, 16 years. In today’s conversation. So, what’s happening here is any of these questions you got to feel, the reason this is scary is because you got to feel comfortable with something that you’re not – you’re comfortable talking and telling everybody how smart you are but you’re not comfortable. They came to talk to you about money. The client or the prospect they don’t care about your solutions. He is the creator of the weekly Sketch Guy column in the The New York Times, and is a columnist for Morningstar Advisor. They care about their problems and you need to get better in understanding people’s problems. We solve some of the world’s problems because of that. [00:15:12] Carl Richards: Yeah. Here you go. Her actual name is Julie. I love that Michael Hyatt saying. And be sort of aware too that they don’t even like the word, plan, like humans don’t like the word plan, mainly because, oh geez, there’s so much we can say here. It’s a well-intentioned belief that like, “Hey, you got to understand and I’m trying to help you with,” but what happens is people want to argue. We don’t know for sure that you do anything at B and we know for sure it goes with a system that we don’t really understand. I have to tell you like this is my first attempt to I always try to hijack people’s podcasts right from the beginning. I think the reason I really will hammer that home is because if you’re thinking about doing it and you’re like, “What’s wrong with me? * Carl Richards, CFP(R) of Behavior Gap in London, England. Working with one of the largest if not the largest brokerage firms in the US. For those in the financial planning space, Carl Richards needs no introduction. And I just mean you part of that chemistry that they’ve read about. I think we’ve got passes I hope but, yeah, like 10 years ago it was like, “Oh, we just make it more female,” like, “No, that’s not even close.” It’s just engaging. [00:16:51] Carl Richards: I get this email all the time from big like the head of training at huge firms that you would all recognize saying, “Could you come help our advisors learn how to talk to humans?” and there’s a bunch. Like, forget the rest of the work you’re going to do. I’m forcibly inserting this opinion into the industry and that is that financially planning has to change and I call it reality-based financial planning. We have 49,000 clients. Most important thing I learned this year: To question all my assumptions. And she was like, “Of course, I know we can’t afford another one. Because oftentimes what I’ll run into we’re all about the analytics and tracking your results from your marketing and your ROIs but sometimes people will discount, “Oh, they just want to get a prospect,” and they won’t actually self-assess and say, “Wait. So, we understand that process of like, okay, we’re still going to build this plan but we’re flexible then when we get phone calls about I got to get out of the market, we have something to go back to, “Hey, remember you told me and that involves time and on track for retirement and are we still on the same page?” “Yeah, we are.” “Okay cool.” Now, we have something to talk about why you want to get on the market. Like if you’re under 30, don’t even worry about it. Just think about this is like your golf swing and then bring that to meeting and sort of post-op meeting where you sit down and get a little feedback. He interrupts me and says, “Hey, last time you brought your daughter to the emergency room that I was on that day. And I’m not a question zealot and Bill rightfully so, teaches a way to do it and he doesn’t deviate from it. [00:30:30] Carl Richards: So, what’s happening here is any of these questions you got to feel, the reason this is scary is because you got to feel comfortable with something that you’re not – you’re comfortable talking and telling everybody how smart you are but you’re not comfortable. My handle is @ Brad_Johnson. They were thinking we have one in Hawaii and we want to buy another one. Like sorry, Brad, I know you know…. [00:45:04] Carl Richards: Well, and that’s just so important for like all of you listing like you have a really hard job and this is – everything we’re talking about here is just human nature. And oftentimes we’re so worried about our solutions, we don’t actually uncover what their problems are. It’s shifting away from the product to the relationship. Let’s clarify a little bit,” and then just right back, “Why is flexibility important to you?” Longer pause and uncomfortable looking at Steve like, “Save me.” She says with a little emotion, “Gosh, I just want some time.”  So, hard-charging ER doctor, medical school residency, “I just want some time and I haven’t even like I want some time.”. [01:01:30] Brad Johnson: Well, what’s that meant for your family? I believe those. If you understand the problem, they don’t even want to know the details.” Now, I know like we’re going to explain it to them in compliance. I also don’t remember thinking good job because I didn’t feel like it was stumbling but when we see someone else fail, we’re like a cheerleader and like, “Go, you can do it.”. So, thanks and when you’re in the states if there’s anywhere close to the Midwest look me up. That seems right. It’s the same story. [44:04] Why women in financial services are often better at working with non-dominant spouses in conversation. I just wanted to make sure. So, tell me what happened. [00:16:45] Carl Richards: Yeah. You’re changing the world like and I know we get the crap beat out of us sort of publicly sometimes. Good thing we’re on video. Brad, thanks for having me. What’s that worth? Comedic as the name may sound, Richards is quite serious about this metaphorical group of "real" planners, as he calls them. Why did that come to be? Carl Richards, a financial planner and author, at the house he lost in Las Vegas. We just don’t know how. Just simply saying, “Oh, that’s interesting. Working in the financial services industry, I always appreciate Brad’s insight and ability to make the topic relevant to our field. So, that stuff’s easy like the tactical stuff is easy which we can dive into. I mean not carefully like the better way to say this would be like I’m standing on the shoulder to people who did it long before me. Was the Behavior Gap always the blog where you have them? It’s the sign that you’ve done something right like when you ask a good question, a good question, by definition, is something somebody hasn’t been asked before. It is so simple but yet so true. They care about their problems. He’s even more scared. I think you’re really right. What are some core things that you found important there? Love the work that you and Adam are doing out in Ohio. They care about their problems like what am I trying to solve for? Your wish for the year ahead: For the last year, you could go to almost any restaurant and you'd hear normal people talking about how worried they were about money. It really shows how committed you are in making good decisions with money.” Let’s start with a question. I’d love to continue the conversation out there. Carl Richards Founder, Presada Capital Management Salt Lake City and Las Vegas. Not only do we read every single comment, but this will help the show rank and get discovered by new listeners. [00:18:50] Carl Richards: My wife and I are going out of town or something for the first time with the kids. We do this in our marriages all the time like we think that that’s her job is to solve the problem. Both the work that you do but more importantly, frankly, than the work you and I do, the work that you’re doing in a certain listener, watcher, viewer, I guess. I thought a lot about this. He’s even more scared. That no one cares about your solutions. In fact if you’d like to connect on a more personal level, give me a follow on Twitter, I’m @brad_johnson. Our firm was founded on two guiding principles: to act with integrity and to always act in our client’s best interests. Now, that is massively growing. Love to hear that the shows helping you along the path of transitioning from financial advisor to a true CEO that’s running a business. Thanks again for joining and be sure to tune in next week for another episode. They’re scared to death. Five stars. And how could I help Julie without it, right? We’ll have to go through these pretty quick. Please keep being this is important. So, we’re getting towards the end here and I’ve got to ask you a few philosophical questions which hopefully we can get to. Oh, why would that be important?” Like just asking more questions and, yeah, I think just the female advisor thing, I’ve been so gratified like we have a long ways to go but my experience with women advisors is they don’t seem to have a problem engaging men in conversations. Oh, you’re sure to do that, if only you walk long enough. It would be fun. So, thanks for bringing your knowledge and your work to the podcast today. [00:11:53] Carl Richards: No, I think that one, I remember who it was. Don’t use those words in front of a client but they didn’t know so you just clarified something that they didn’t even really know. The first one is, do you do a flight plan, a detailed site plan for every flight? Maybe it was the T-shirts, which have appeared on the Wall Street Journal blog, or his sketches, which have become something of a trademark. Like all of those feelings start coming up and we’re like what if we just extended ourselves the same grace we extend others and just say, “Look, because nobody else,” and like and you hear this all the time that nobody, first of all, no one saw it. So, none of this, “Hey, Brad, what do your kids do? It was like here’s your retirement account, here’s your bank account, and we’re going to do this and then when you retire, we’ll reverse the arrow like it was just sort of a cash flow because you’ve seen the estate planners do this all the time. The wife says, “Hey, of course, I know.” Because the concern was we already have one in Hawaii. Record the questions you asked. So, that’s where I started. Treat this person like my mom like, whatever, it’s some meaningful things to you. I registered the Emotional Gap first and then I was like, “Ah, that sounds a little soft. So, that Dave and Diane meeting, the first like if you want to call it the first source sketch that I drew in front of somebody was 95. CARL RICHARDS is a certified financial planner and a columnist for the New York Times, where his weekly Sketch Guy column has run every Monday for over five years. Most of us didn’t sign up to be marriage counselors. Carl has also been featured on Marketplace Money,, and The regulation permits more exemptions from fiduciary duties, but may itself be replaced by the incoming Biden administration. Bill has this amazing question. Pam Houston who is a memoirist which I’ve never read like I’ve never read a memoir in my life. [01:02:16] Carl Richards: I think those are two different questions like the present and aware piece, I don’t know. Carl Richards CFP ® is a speaker at the 2018 FPA Professionals Congress in Sydney (21-23 November). I don’t know anyone that’s doing [inaudible] work that’s not scared why they’re doing it. But looking at two or three strategies that we’ve used in the past with other people that have a similar issue, here’s where we think we could go with it and they’re really oversimplifying it where a lot of offices they’ll start pulling out, “Oh, here’s the three asset managers we’re going to use. What were you thinking? Thanks for listening in and I will catch you on the next show. With the modem, tu-tu-tu-tut. Nobody likes that. They don’t talk to anyone about money, and they came to talk to you. "I asked a PR firm what it would cost to get mentioned in the New York Times. Love the work that you and Adam are doing out in Ohio! We put some framework around the goals that our guests relax then and if you understand this process in shifting the weight from the plan to the process. [40:32] The reason great financial services practices are more like therapy than simply a way to sell financial products. You know what, it’s a great moat around your castle because those that are scared to do it, the ones that aren’t scared are the smaller percentage than the ones that are. Let me know you listen to the show, how you found it, who I should have… etc. Please keep pushing. Tell me why. “Advisors are scared that if we make something too simple, people won’t pay for it. Well, I can help you calculate that.” All right. I’m scared,” you need to have a voice in your head that says, “Nothing is wrong with you, brother,” like just dive in. “Would you tell me please, which way I ought to go from here?” “That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,” said the cat. Carl Richards is a Certified Financial Planner™ and creator of the Sketch Guy column, appearing weekly in The New York Times since 2010. When it comes to financial planning and investments, many people lose sight of the things they can control (spending, savings) and focus on the things … I’m like, “Oh, I’m sorry. [00:02:24] Brad Johnson: Due to crazy high shipping prices, it just doesn’t make sense to spend $20 to $40 to ship you a $10 book so please accept my apology and just go support Carl and grab a copy at your local bookstore or out on Amazon. That’s true. This week’s first review comes to us from BenschD who says, “Incredible guests and insight. [01:05:32] Brad Johnson: Thanks for checking out the latest show. Yeah. That’s why I think we do that, and it’s totally misinformed. I was reading Sinek’s where I’m like, “Wow. So, if you can get to the heart of their problems, spend your time on understanding their problems, the solution, the prescription is easy. So, that Dave and Diane meeting, the first like if you want to call it the first source sketch that I drew in front of somebody was 95. I’ve seen the New York Times column. I have special guest Carl Richards here with us today. [47:00] An example of the power of treating a non-engaged partner in a relationship like a human being – and the incredible insights discovered along the way. This conversation definitely lived up to my expectations. You remember what the original sketch was, the very first one? There’s going to be disclosure and all that good stuff, but just believe me if you understand the problem, they don’t really need to know the details about the solution. I enjoy Brad’s down-to-earth interviewing style and look forward to future episodes. Let’s put some framework around.” This is exactly how I would’ve said it. Like, if you had told us we are going to live in New Zealand 75 days before we landed here, it would have never even crossed our minds, but that’s why we’re here. Fantasy career: Coming up with creative solutions. First job: I'm sure I had a job mowing lawns or doing landscaping. And Bill I learned it from Bill from his book and then I also learned it from John Bowen and John Bowen is the one that taught me the word, The Discovery Meeting, and I know attorneys have been using that forever. And so, I said, “Tell me a little bit more about freedom, like what does that mean?” “Oh Carl, I just want a little flexibility.” There were pauses and some uncomfortable shifting and so, “I want a little flexibility.” “Okay. Adaptive means that our interaction with the system changes the system so like just whenever we move, reality moves too, right? Like she wasn’t even listening back then. And he’s not good friends so it’s okay for me to beat up on it a little bit like 7-point font with like pages and pages and stuff. Remember, Gary telling me, “You’re going to have clients who are never going to even know what asset managers they’re using. Is your family dynamic and being out of the US? Like what’s your performing whatever?” And next thing they know, she was like, “Ah,” whatever. It becomes an ongoing process, so I like to think in 90-day segments like here’s what we’re going to work on for the next 90 days and the other analogy I use quickly is pilots. It’s interesting how many times I’ve heard that the training in our industry often tends to miss the mark or fall short. Like I like to get up in people’s faces and then say, “Hey, but I also know how hard it is.” All I’m asking you gently to do is just like just remind yourself of the humanity of the work you’re doing and just pause and go…. Well, and that’s just so important for like all of you listing like you have a really hard job and this is – everything we’re talking about here is just human nature. This question of why like start with why is so good,” and about that same time around Dan Sullivan of The Strategic Coach, actually the book called the Dan Sullivan Question, which is another great one. Because oftentimes what I’ll run into we’re all about the analytics and tracking your results from your marketing and your ROIs but sometimes people will discount, “Oh, they just want to get a prospect,” and they won’t actually self-assess and say, “Wait. That’s not always the breadwinner, by the way. [09:31] Carl tells the story of how he turned his sketches into a career “totally by accident” while trying to explain a complicated concept to a financial services client – and how small insights and “bursts of tail wind” led to the start of his career at the New York Times. I think it’s in the book. I’m not that way. and he frequently keynotes at financial planning conferences around the world. I think we’re a bit calloused because we see the same problems over and over and we create the same solutions over and over where we forget these are human beings walking and sharing their deepest darkest secrets around money that they probably haven’t shared with anyone, including their own kids and we just treat them like, “Fill out this questionnaire,” like very mechanical and your point in the book you mentioned it’s more like a therapy session than it is a session with a financial advisor and I found the very best advisors that’s exactly the way they approach it. Alice: Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here? So, I’ve been coaching advisors, independent advisors for 12 years, going on 13 now, and one of the hardest things to get them to do, which I know this will be ultra-surprising to you is to simplify the complex. “So long as I get somewhere,” Alice added as an explanation. This is a second career for me and this show is like a Masters class for financial planning and advice. Find Carl Richards online. It turns out an advisor named Kent I always remember because Kent changed my life and an advisor named Kent send it to – he happened to have some really casual friendship. We’re going to meet once a week and each of us are going to bring as much as we have time so one, two, three first meeting too and we’re going to if you recorded them which that can get tricky because that makes you even more scared and sometimes it makes a client. Where, ” said Alice of freedom when you ’ re interested in this whole like. Move, reality moves too, right, like I would ’ ve seen the New Times... Ve gained more knowledge on that topic here than anywhere else family dynamic and being out of or. Especially from a us perspective you said earlier as he said three, I always appreciate Brad s. Planner™ and creator of the process and you start with the kids show... 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